| #1 Hawke (stj205.nf.sympatico.ca)[10210] |
|
Hmmm.
2 paragraphs long and doesnt make sense
-2.4 =[ |
| #2 -=DarkHawke=- (stj205.nf.sympatico.ca)[10212] |
|
Ok, Its better now 8*)
Pics work, and it makes sense ;D
Did you win that game btw? |
| #3 -=DarkHawke=- (stj205.nf.sympatico.ca)[10213] |
|
Hey. It's a good report, here's a Bit of advice.
1) Make a web page somewhere , upload asm any pics as you want, and do html to load pics so you can see more pics.
2) Show your supply/resources all the time. ( If showing how to do something )
3) you're cool. |
| #4 Heartcutter (209.185.98.79)[10214] |
|
Hehe.
I didn't finish it. Unfortunately it's not a bona-fide battle. I just read the imbalance games between Ghost and Sausage and I got pissed off.
Your major enemy with Heavy Metal is not your opponent, but rather, your own micro and macro skill. You have to use a blend of both, moreso than 2 Rax vs. Zerg. You're gonna need continuous production of troops, and attention all over the map, so you need to streamline building units.
If you can't do that, you'll fall flat on your face.
I want Terran players to get better. There are enough challenges as is. The one big strength is that once you get REALLY good with terran, your defense is a 'duh' and you know your units can fend off a tough assault without your attention. Then you can stage a strong counterattack in the midst of the battle.
But to make a long story short, with Terran, you need to macro your building and micro your battles.
-HC
|
| #5 JSH (nscs11p1.remote.umass.edu)[10215] |
|
Wow, I made a report that pissed Heartcutter off! :O
hehe |
| #6 YourRoleModel (relay.atinc.com)[10216] |
|
It almost makes me want to come out of retirement to try it... this almost shouldn't be a report, but in another area off the side for posts just like this that outline strategies...
I may just be in CHARGE of deleting duplicate reports in the upcoming week when Johnny and Mark4 are both out of town... Johnny to visit, and Mark to save our country from the Hurricane.
During that week, I want all of you folks to click the financial banner (.25 per original click), then the dragonscroll (.08 per original click) banner first thing everytime you enter this URL (multiple clicking and refreshing doesn't work). Show JV and Mark4 how much you support your former hero by doing this... if Johnny makes enough cash, I'll think about coming out of retirement for the FFA reports.
AND NO!!! I don't make any money at all. I am supporting the site by trying to get you to support it, so I can make blatant plugs for profit without pangs of guilt. Profit is a laugh however, because even if everyone clicks everyday, it's hard to make profit on a site. If you appreciate anything that was ever on this site, please click the adds every time you visit for ALL of next week. Hard work deserves some appreciation in my opinion, and if you agree, click the freakin adds.
That is all.
YourRoleModel over and out. |
| #7 TheRubberDucky (dfiatx100-044.dsl.gtei.net)[10217] |
|
I want terran plyers to get worse. Worse worse WORSE! WORSE BADDER UN-GOODER Suckseier. Then I won't lose to them gay ass marines with the medics that are so fuckign cheap (50/25 = cheap) that they don't want to rape. All the marines r gay or they would spend the entire game raping the medics! hhahahahahahhaha
Sorry, I'm pissed, starcraft won't run anymore, and It's reinstalling...slowly.... This is the only thing I know how to do, and I do it badly. |
| #8 [5th]Krebster (spider-we034.proxy.aol.com)[10219] |
|
| heh every time i do this build i can never figure out when to switch to tank production over vults guess i just sux can someone help a poor ol newbie out with this problem or is it instinct? |
| #9 T_Mac (ts7-46t-10.idirect.com)[10220] |
|
| Thats all fine and dandy, but sheesh, with YRM gone, i wanna see some brs from you heart! |
| #10 Pitt (res6486.student.nd.edu)[10221] |
|
| what's up with the lack of egbay? Also, can you start up a schematic of how you set up production defense while you are out countering/attacking? I find that the heavy metal against zerg is a great lead to turbo newb or even deadlier obunkering. The only problem is when the fucker drops 8 lurks on you :( Happened last night in a 2v1. two zerg vs me. Never got a chance to get out and hurt them. Heart more we want MORE!!!!!!!!!!! :) |
| #11 GhOsT~LiZarD (1Cust150.tnt1.lorton.va.da.uu.net)[10222] |
|
| Btw I could've esily won the 2nd game vs necro, i forgot to put 2 tanx by my CC as planned, i know it sux but watcha gonna do. |
| #12 Hearcutter (office-193.x.beyond.com)[10223] |
|
Heavy metal is pretty much for 'toss only (Hydras make HM a bad choice). Use the 2 Rax for vs. Zerg.
As for lack of Ebay, you'll do fine with just mines and comsat. You will eventually get an Ebay, but it won't be a critical priority. DT's are still a melee unit, and you can run circles around them with vultures (which you should be doing!).
Base defense is kind of simple- Mines. Especially one right near your comsat, and any location where dropping a reaver would be good. Since you're placing your depots behind your base, mine right on the inside of the depot line. You are also the base architect. Make him feel that he's found the perfect place for a reaver drop, when in fact he's landing in a minefield. In an optimal situation, the reaver lands and goes boom. If he lands and starts shelling, you should probably have enough tanks and vultures to fend him off.
|
| #13 <img "http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/SuperGeneral/images/SuperGeneral.jpg"></i[10231] |
|
This is general (damn HTML) (No IP 4 me)
I like people like you cutter. You help all us newbies out. I wanna see more reports with better instructions. Cattle, if you read this continue you teaching series (teaching private vegas or whatever).
In a recent game on river crossing I put turrets/bunkers/tanks all along the river. They were unable to get into my base and nukes stopped them from doing the same. I ended the game pretty much with a triple nuke drop on his main. GG LeaderOfWolves2 (hes my friend from school) |
| #14 StimmedCorsair (sdn-ar-001kylexiP167.dialsprint.net)[10234] |
|
This is a very, very powerful build if perfomed correctly. However, I have a few questions.
1)Do you immediately make two machine shops? When does mine research come in, and vulture speed also?
2)How many vultures to make before starting tanks?
3)Where does the engineering bay come in, and when to expand?
4)Should you put mines right outside your base or right outside of his base?
For the hell of it I've practiced this build against computer toss to see how fast I can get all this up and going, right now my current record for having 12+ tanks and a small handful of marines at their base is around 14 minutes, with a fully operating expansion going also. |
| #15 ~CB~ (buri.campus.vt.edu)[10236] |
|
YRM gets a 10.0 for his blatant Ad plugging!
And Vegas may come back some day... I don't know. |
| #16 Heartcutter (office-193.x.beyond.com)[10237] |
|
1) Yes. You build 1 vultures for scouting, then shops on both factories. Mines pretty much come before everything else. Vulture speed (if fighting DT) or Siege (if you see goons). It all depends on recon at that point.
2) So the question is vultures or marines. I have a mathematical guide. It goes like this: If I can afford 2 tanks, I build it. If I can afford 1 and a vulture, I do it. Otherwise it's 2 vultures.
Side note: Factory time is expensive. You should always be building something, no matter the time or cost. Focus on tanks, and when you can't afford them, build vultures. It gives a good mix.
3) Ebay comes once you start on your expansion CC to float.
4) Right outside his base. And in his natural. And at the expansions. Mines are like Lays potato chips. You can't have just one.
Here's another thing to remember: You'll win if you can keep him from expanding. And you CAN stop him from expanding with 8 vultures + mines.
|
| #17 Heartcutter (office-193.x.beyond.com)[10238] |
|
Doh!
2) Vultures or Tanks (not marines)!
Sorry
-HC |
| #18 [-LoveBone-] (du120-253.ppp.algonet.se)[10239] |
|
here's my opinion, don't flame me for it, just listen to what I have to say....
I did this order a lot against Protoss, and I found it to be really effective against semi-good Protoss players that don't know how to counter it =]
Well, I started to face better and better players and I found out that this strategy was kinda bad, since Dragoons owns this BO...considering you are mining yourself in (which BTW I did too) you can't pose much of an offensive threat other than a 4 vulture drop in his peon line
altho, a Protoss that is experienced with this will know tha t putting up 1-2 cannons in the peon line is good when u have an expansion going (which he will have taking into consideration that u mined urself in)
Altho it sounds redicilous, M&M&F is really the way to go against Protoss IMHO
Fact is, as long as you have firebats, stim, range and medics to support your marines, you'll be able to toast a LOT of Zealots/Dragoons, just concentrate fire...
I like to see it this way...
Marines is the core of your army
Medics Support Marines
Siege Tanks support M&M
SVs support Tanks and M&M
Ghosts and Goliaths support SV, Tank and M&M
BCs and Vultures HELP in most situations
bleh, u wanted u all to listen to wahts on my mind =] |
| #19 Silent Strike (205.freehold-03-04rs.nj.dial-access.att.net)[10242] |
|
I am a reasonably skilled terran player. I got 1255 last season all terran and I was 1278 yesterday. I used to go mass infantry vs protoss, as you WILL win nearly every infantry vs infantry battle if you use stim and are not outproduced. However, I got sick of being left offenseless by 2 cannons or losing more than 3 dozen marines to psi storm late game.
Also, try heavy metal on ashrigo.. that map is soooo good for it I would go out on a limb and say terran vs protoss on ashrigo is balanced. |
| #20 UpgradedKakaru (d031.paris-187.cybercable.fr)[10243] |
|
Thx heart cus im also trying to improve my teran. But everyone seems to understand what u mean by the "8depot/10rax" bo; howver i dont b/c i always use thorn's build order: 8 depot 11 rax 13 rax 14 depot 20 acad 21 gas; please can you explain fully the build order down to the last detail of when u make an scv and a depot, and the number of the scv with which u make each building. Also, a sentence is cut; the one about agent911's tip...why do we have to build fact near cc?
Thanks again |
| #21 Warphead (merkur.vo.lu)[10244] |
|
Hmm...
That kinda BO sounds dodgy... I mean, scouting with your first VULTURE sounds f**ked up to my 2 years of intense gaming =]
What happens if the Toss skips Zealots and goes early Goons?
Will mines suffice for anti- cloak stuff?
Frankly, Heartcutter, you've given us the skeleton of the build but not the meat... stop keeping the meat for yourself ;) |
| #22 Ash (adsl-216-103-251-20.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)[10250] |
|
YRM, I just clicked on both banners. I thought you should know :-) Actually, I never even noticed the financial banner until you mentioned it. Honest.
Heart, many thanks for sitting down and showing all us poor saps how to take on a toss. I'll try and make you proud. Please write more of these: lord knows we terrans need all the help we can get when fighting those gay-ass toss. ;-) |
| #23 Pitt (res6486.student.nd.edu)[10252] |
|
thanks heart I think I have enough to modify the build to my needs :) BTW I used this build a while ago and it worked great. I went with an earlier eg bay to force a reaver dropping toss to land in mine fields :) it worked perfectly and the schmuc lost two reavers to 2-3 mines.
IMHO greatest thing about heavy metal.... Laughing when an opponents drop is slaughtered by just mines :)
Plus being able to switch up to gols as next step is just orgasmic :) PEACE |
| #24 Heartcutter (office-193.x.beyond.com)[10255] |
|
10 or 11 rax isn't that crucial, so don't fret if you do one or the other.
As for keeping the meat... hehe.
The meat of it is that your first vulture will give you huge amounts of intel when he finds the enemy camp (or enemy troops for that matter). If you see lots of goons, turn on siege tank production and get mode.
If he gets in your face early with goons, you HAVE to hold with a bunker at your choke. At absolute worst, you have to hold with a bunker at your factories (when in doubt, build one at your choke AND factory). This build will get you tanks as fast as possible without screwing up your economy. That's also why you block off the choke with the depots and marines with the hold command. They have to knock down a 500 hp building in order to start screwing with the rest of your econ. You can get adequate defenses up if it comes down to it.
And yes, DT die to mines rather well. What you SHOULD do is put toss on defensive. With your first 5 or so vultures, lay a minefield at your choke. Lay a minefield at his ramp. Then shoot through the choke with a move command and try to kill as many little peons as you can.
Be annoying. You're muta harassing with fat little rednecks. DT's can't catch you, unless you let them.
The last question is 'Why the factory next to the CC.' I'll tell you why. It's macro. A little more detail is that when you build a new SCV, you can also quickly move the mouse and build a new tank, a new vulture, then get back to the battle you're fighting (make the mouse move as small a distance as possible). By minimizing the amount of time 'at base,' you're being a more active commander. Then you can Micro and do all the neat little things that Terrans like to do.
Ashrigo is fun for Heavy Metal. You can waste enemy expansions easily, as well as putting your mines to the best use possible.
Well that's all. Good luck. Happy pushing.
-HC
|
| #25 Fractal_Wave (proxy1.gvcl1.bc.wave.home.com)[10264] |
|
This makes me want to play more Terran and less Zerg and faxor up the days of more Protoss...I can feel my accent red-neckizeing already.
"Y'all want a piece of mah rifle?"
Thanks Heart.
All the best,
Fractal_Wave |
| #26 SnowSquall (a1-1d051.neo.rr.com)[10265] |
|
Excellant. I'm going to shelve this book right next to the "Guide against Zerg" one. All these little tips are getting me semi-confident with terran. Another thing I'm getting out of this build -- even if you make it a stalemate again the toss, you win as soon as you get ghosts. 20-25 ghosts are a scary thing to behold.
Then of course, if you're playing on LT and your opponent is unlucky enough to start at 3 o'clock, you get to seige his geyser. Little tips like those... the chagrin once they realize that you've knocked out their gas, and mined in their natural, so no gas for them. :)
Excellant pictures to show what you're saying. Now I'm gonna go try this out...
SnowSquall, still the aspiring Terran player. |
| #27 [-LoveBone-] (du34-253.ppp.algonet.se)[10274] |
|
Hey me again...
no you wont be able to 'harrass' peon lines with
vultures, because one cannon in the middle of the peon line will suffice for taking down 4 vultures...and sure, vultures are fast and nice but they are really sore mofos..and they certainly can't deliver sufficient firepower against Dragoons which leads me to a thing...
Siege Tanks/Vultures only work against Dragoons if you start your push at your own fucking base...if u do this with Tanks/M&M&F/SVs instead you can still get caught of guard and still wipe the shit of Dragoons that are coming to get you
(you stim, he focuses fire against your marines, you siege and matrix your tanks) or
(you stim, he focuses fire agaisnt your Tanks, you matrix and kill the dragoons)
and the whole deal about templar > M&M
well, yes templar own M&M, but templars cant be everywhere on the map, and if you are somewhat decent with Science Vessels you'll easily limit the amount of these guys...
but as I stated earlier, vultures are good units, but they dont work on their own, or combined with only tanks for that matter...u need M&M, tanks and SVs with em'
and as a last thing...ghosts own all of you....a 25/75 unit can lockdown a 400/300 unit - I mean thats insane =]
latez, and have fun
[-Lovebone-] |
| #28 -=DarkHawke=- (stj215.nf.sympatico.ca)[10276] |
|
I owned a toss with it.
WOOOOO!!!!!
thx heart!! 8)
wait, i told u on bnet 8( |
| #29 Von Doom (fridge1.volvo.se)[10277] |
|
X-Celent!!
U R my Hero..
A human not abandoning his own race to use some Alien one..
I Have heard about this strat, but never tried it..
I guess I will now.
I do more of a 2rax 1fact 4starport and so..
Though I began using the Vultures a while ago after reading a report about them, and now I am writing a BR in wich I used the mines to kill off an entire invanding force consisting of 2 players..
|
| #30 YourRoleModel (relay.atinc.com)[10278] |
|
| Great... now SnowSquall will knock a few more people into retirement and we'll never have any reports here. |
| #31 Silent Strike (105.freehold-03-04rs.nj.dial-access.att.net)[10284] |
|
To [-LoveBone-]
The thing is with the templar, even if you knock out 8 of 10 templar, they can easily still rack up 30 kills with 2 full mana templar, no matter how well you control your marines. I just started getting sick of it. Reavers are also somewhat of a problem, but they can be more easilty remedied with tanks or wraiths (or even ghosts late game).
Though the heavy metal terran strategy has some weaknesses, (early expansion behind a couple of photons, ranged goon rush) so does an academy rush. (Turbo templar with cannons, , turbo reaver behind cannons.. hell, even early exp behind photons). But the heavy metal has a big advantage in that 2 templar will not stop an entire attack. |
| #32 SnowSquall (a1-1d051.neo.rr.com)[10286] |
|
Well Goliaths have human pilots. I figured it along the same lines as spawn broodling. But of course that doesn't explain, like you said, reavers.
I don't like psi storm. Not surprising, since I'm usually on the receiving end of it. :P |
| #33 SnowSquall (a1-1d051.neo.rr.com)[10288] |
|
Or do Goliaths have human pilots? Did I get that wrong? Should I lay off the drugs? At least I had always thought that they did.
Aw, I think I'll just shut up and go to work now. :) |
| #34 JSH (nscs40p2.remote.umass.edu)[10289] |
|
| Yes, Goliaths have human pilots. |
| #35 Omnipresent (170.182.91.159)[10290] |
|
| Hmm.... Well I disagree with the fact that double factory build is all that great (except on large 256x256 maps where teching is essential), but at least you inspire people heart ;->. I would say something useful but I'm in school ;(. |
| #36 Slicer (ip69.portland11.or.pub-ip.psi.net)[10304] |
|
Nah.... if psi storm worked like that, it would be too powerful, because it would kill only the human inside.
In other words, it would kill tanks, valks, and BCs with only one hit.. |
| #37 ronin (stn22.esf.edu)[10305] |
|
| i would like to point out that reavers have human pilots too even if they speak korean. |
| #38 HardDrive99 (eag40481.corp.novatel.ca)[10314] |
|
The biggest benefit about the heavy metal strategy is that it is flexible versus a protoss opponent. And as Heartcutter says 10/11 it doesn't make a huge difference. It's the idea that matters... go hard core factories for vulture production and then shift into tank mode. Mines and seige tank are nasty against goons and zealots. With vultures in your arsenal the DT rush/containment is not an issue.
Why the early one vulture scout?... well not only recon but at that stage in the game you have very few units compared to your worst threat early game (zealot rush). The early vulture can give you enough info to start that bunker which will make the possibility of living better. Plus hit and run the whole way really chokes off opponents.
Note: Dragoons own vultures as do photon cannons so as your opponent produces more and more of these you'll need to go heavier tank. I'll tend to produce vultures like mad until I see the cybercore go up and then it's seige mode time. Use the vulture speed to your benefit... run past zealots, take out peons, hit and run to keep them off balance.
As for Heartcutter's macro strat... it also applies to Toss as well. If all your unit producing buildings are close together it makes it very easy to hotkey an area and produce a ton of units and then go back to your battle micro.
HD |
| #39 hawke (stj202.nf.sympatico.ca)[10318] |
|
me -5
tosseys -2 ;p |
| #40 -=darkhawke=- (stj202.nf.sympatico.ca)[10320] |
|
me vs a 1430 toss
maP : temple
i get 12:00 he get 6
i wall off choke
and go dbl factory
power.
i keep on pushing with wraiths,vults(mines)tanks,marines,medics and
i keep uishiung for 10 minutes and i win |
| #41 Ash (adsl-216-103-251-20.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)[10321] |
|
Ronin, reavers don't have human pilots, or toss pilots for that matter. They speak Korean 'cause that's what language their CPUs were programmed in. That's right, reaver programs are not run on C++ or java, but the actual Korean language! This just shows how much more sophisticated protoss technology is. And FYI, shuttles are programmed in Slavic, and observer programs run in Swahili.
YRM, I clicked on both banners again. Please come back. |
| #42 To HardDrive99 (bootp-237-114.bootp.Virginia.EDU)[10329] |
|
| so, you alreayd have vultures and a factory before most of the protoss players you play have a cybernetics core...now that has got to be bullshit |
| #43 'MarskStig' (kongelund.groenjord.dk)[10336] |
|
I have some problems with the early game timing... I think I do exactly what is described, but somehow I stockpile enough resources to make my second machine-shop upgrade BEFORE I have scouted my enemy with my first vulture. Thus I can't use the information gained to choose between siege mode or vulture speed. :-/
(I don't suppose I should wait to use my gas, so I automatically choose vulture speed)
It would be nice to have some REALLY in-depth description down to which scv does what, so I can find out where my error is. (Yeah, I'm a perfectionist)
|
| #44 'MarskStig' (kongelund.groenjord.dk)[10339] |
|
I have some problems with the early game timing... I think I do exactly what is described, but somehow I stockpile enough resources to make my second machine-shop upgrade BEFORE I have scouted my enemy with my first vulture. Thus I can't use the information gained to choose between siege mode or vulture speed. :-/
(I don't suppose I should wait to use my gas, so I automatically choose vulture speed)
It would be nice to have some REALLY in-depth description down to which scv does what, so I can find out where my error is. (Yeah, I'm a perfectionist)
|
| #45 HardDrive99 (proxy1.cgma1.ab.wave.home.com)[10345] |
|
Well to get vultures you have to have a factory.
Most toss players go for a double gateway build. When I go with the HeavyMetal strat I will produce vultures out of that first factory before I jump to the second factory and machine shop add on.
Why? Earlier recon and killing peons really slows down your opponent. A quick attack like that typically puts the protoss into defensive mode. When you kill peons and make him put up forge/photon cannons to protect them you can make your opponent delay his cybercore build.
Doesn't always work... but the longer you can make them delay the cybercore going up the longer you can produce straight vultures and do vulture teching. But when goons come on line (esp ones with increased range) vultures don't cut it and you need seige tanks to put you out front again.
Bullshit? Nah... the double factory strat has been around for a long time and I've used it many times in the above type of scenario.
HD
|
| #46 Heartcutter (office-193.x.beyond.com)[10352] |
|
Mark,
I run into this as well. You never see your opponent, yet you have the resources to get a tech. You have to choose immediately, The best upgrade to get in this situation is vulture speed. This takes in the assumption that your opponent is teching. If your scout later runs headlong into something like 8 goons, I have no problems cancelling the vulture speed research in favor of siege mode.
So I hate to say it, but be flexible. |
| #47 Rupeo (spider-to087.proxy.aol.com)[12789] |
|
| The 2 factory build sounds good, but how do you stop and eneemy from dropping DT or reavers right in the middle of youre SCVs? Mines will do more harm than good there and you will not have much anti air. |
| #48 TheCabbit[24619] |
| bgm-57-110.stny.rr.com |
| HM rox, sometimes... i've been beaten by Goons/Dweb/Carriers =( DT drops have killed me too (And I *did* have 2 tanks, bunker, 2 turrets ><) but I just killed my friend with it, it ownz. He contained me extremely well with 6 cannons, gate, 16+ zealots and 8+ Goons w/ some token High templar. Little b***ard died to 8 tanks, 10 vultures and some token turrets here and there. Hah, then i rammed another 8 tanks, 10 vults up his choke point and through all his HTs/Goons. I find using 4 tanks sieged, 2 further back, sieged, two on the sides, unsieged and 10 vultures holding up front really good against Goon/Zealot attacks=] |
| #49 ....$argent....[89060] |
| spider-to034.proxy.aol.com |
You all suck. Most of you lost cause you dont know how to play with terran. You dont place 3 marines as Defence. Common Sense. You place bunkers behind the depots and build about 3 or 4 of them with somee tanks and turrets. Der'
Learn how to play newbies.
-Sargent |
| #50 jarwsher[135883] |
| spider-ntc-tg032.proxy.aol.com |
| i hate this dffghjklkmnbvcxcvbnm,loijhd |
| #51 MY BUTT IS JOSHY GARCIA[135884] |
| spider-ntc-tg032.proxy.aol.com |
| I HATE U GUYS I LOVE BATTLE-NET THOUGH... |
Home
Forum
Starcraft Tournaments
