"stop living"-
DisgruntledApe
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| #1 <font color="red"> Executor </font>[48541] | | p456-tnt4.akl.ihug.co.nz | | FIRST COMMENT | | #2 <font color="red"> Executor </font>[48544] | | cache3.ihug.co.nz | | U shouldn't have let him expand all over the map and expand more youeself. And finally 6 carriers with 3 inters each is pathetic. To crack a terran turtle u need 12 carriers (at least. And cloak 'em with 2 arbiters it works wonders vs ghosts since they get killed before they can LD)And finally 3/3/3 Upgraded are a must since 1 carrier with 4 inters and 0/0/0 upgrades does 24 damage and 1 carrier with 8 inters with 3/3/3 upgrades does 72 damage plus if his marines aren't upgraded it means 6 damage vs your shield advantage (lv3) = 3 damage. I don't want to even say how hard it is for marines to take down a monster with 300 hp and 7 armour. | | #3 Steven Xan[48546] | | comet.zapsurf.com.sg | Executor, there's only 1 expansion for each player in the map. Check it out yourself, it's called the Small Divide.
| | #4 <font color="blue">Blue~Devil</font>[48547] | | dialups-449.palmer.mtaonline.net | | DAMMIT!! foiled again! no first for me=( not even second=-( | | #5 :+:NoonE:+:[48549] | | c408591-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com | | <marquee>Well, im 5th, the best i ever gotten =)</marquee> | | #6 ovinder[48560] | | erbium-asy-41.rutgers.edu | It can be tough to play with scarce resources as toss cause your hard-hitting units, that can take easily down bunkers (reavers, carriers) need a constant mineral flow to replace their "weapons". You definitely need different strats.
As toss, when playing with scarce resources learn to know & love your shield batteries. Also, learn to know & love your arbiters.
What follows is for vanilla starcraft.
Strat 1. stasis - scouts - shield batteries
Use arbiters and scouts to take down buildings. First, use stasis to minimize resistance. Second, dash in with a hotkey or two of scouts. Kill one building on the periphery, then retreat to your shield batteries. Rinse & repeat.
Strat 2. stasis - hallucinate - frontal attack
You had a sound idea, but different implementation would help you a *lot*. First cast stasis a few times over a broad area to put your turtling opponent's tanks, sci vessels and ghosts out of commission. Second, send in your hallucinations. Third, send in your "real" units (ie: goons, templar) and waste your opponent's Maginot Line.
Strat 3. recall - attack
Use stasis to mess up your opponent's nearby Sci vessels. Then, send in mass hallucinations of an arbiter, plus one or two real arbiters. Do a recall on a large force of your units, gathered together at your base, deep into the heart of the terran base. (Make sure you do a couple of dry runs first using just hallucinations to scout his base thoroughly and see where all his defences are set up.)
Once you're in, and assuming you're far enough away from his maginot line to avoid being instantly annhilated by tanks, you'll probably rip up his base tremendously. Keep at least one arbiter, better yet a few, back inside your base waiting to cast recall on your offensive force if they get in trouble. Use shield batteries on your surviving forces, then rinse & repeat.
Strat 4. recall - assassination
This strat is evil. Its pure cheese, as there's really nothing a turtle can do about this without attacking and overwhelming you. Set up a "kill zone" in your base, with a couple of hotkeys of goons nearby, plus a temp or two nearby with storm, maybe some cannons. Cast hallucinations, send them in, then do a recall on a small group of terran units using the vision given to you by your hallucinations. Bring them into your kill zone and ... kill them. Use scouts with no ground units nearby when you recall sieged tanks over into your kill zone. Eventually your turtling opponent will have no units left outside his bunkers and you can just move in and mop up. Personally, I'd rather choose the other strats because this is too nasty and I'd find it boring. But, if you REALLY want to teach your friend the futility of turtling this strat will do it.
A few other random suggestions.
Don't waste cash on carriers for a map with sharply limited resources. In a long game (and against turtles what other kinds of games are there on low res maps?) minerals are your limiting factor, so make gas-heavy units and few or no reavers. Arbiters rock the world anyways, when used well, so stock up on them.
Its definitely useful to make several templars, but masses of them will not add a lot of power to your attack force because templars are extremely micro-intensive and practically speaking its extremely difficult to manage more than two or three in a given combat anyways (unless you treat all your other units in that attack as fodder).
Remember that minerals are your limiting factor in extremely low-res games. After a certain point arbiters become the cheapest unit in the toss arsenal, ironically, because they intensively use the only resource that never runs out: gas. So, once again, stock up on them, spread them out to limit the effectiveness of EMP, keep using stasis until your opponent begins to think his units are supposed to have blue diamond-like shapes around them all the time.
Good luck. :) | | #7 CynicalMagician[48563] | | px3cl.gv.wave.shaw.ca | Not bad, your writing was decent, but you could use some formatting, like titles maybe. Some pics would be nice, albiet not necessary. Also, a better game to BR is good too. All in all, you've got potential. Hope to read more by you.
-CynicalMagician | | #8 Melvinator[48564] | | proxy3.frmt1.sfba.home.com | | I didn't really like the report, but at least it's a start. You used "Needless to say" too many times. | | #9 ~PL~CloudStrife[48572] | | ci991207-b.edgewd1.ky.home.com | Let me guess, a first? Anywho, small divide is a map i've learned to hate. Play a random map sometime....
I need to get some sleep... | | #10 BW-sux[48575] | | spider-we082.proxy.aol.com | I'll leave Dref to comment on this.
BW-sux | | #11 <marquee>|MaNiAcMaRiNe|</marquee>[48577] | | dialin242.eagle.ca | | Dispite no pics and a little short i liked it. I'd give it a 6 or 7, depending what mood i was in =P. Oh and Ovinder, u can't recall any other units besides ur own. sorry :P | | #12 <font color=yellow>Phoenix</font>[48581] | | node156e4.a2000.nl | If you know he's gonna turtle winning is easier.
Turtlers don't attack. Keep that in mind.
Now, in early game, fake a double gate build without gas when he scouts you. He <i>will</i> make more defense and delay his academy (+ comsat!) for a while to set up proper defense.
Cancel that gateway (or let it finish, whatever you like), save up 400 minerals and expand. When your expo is up and running you should have build your CyCore, 3 Stargate and a Fleet Beacon. Just start making carriers and crush him with a slightly delayed carrier rush.
Note: you might want to build your starports and beacon somewhere else and fake some temps and shuttles so he won't make Goliaths, since your carrier construction site likely won't be scanned.
Bottomline: catch him with his pants down with 9 or so carriers (I'd say it can be done in 15-20 minutes).
Just remember that you won't have to defend since TURTLERS DON'T ATTACK. Good Luck.
Phoenix | | #13 Mogalin[48585] | | co853273-a.foti1.on.wave.home.com | | One word: Dweb. | | #14 Sonneillon[48586] | | tsdlsk01d01010128.sk.sympatico.ca | Those were some good points ovinder - but there is one thing you were wrong about. Recall assassination does not work - You simply cannot recall enemy units. Lol, if you could, the late game Protoss would be so powerful it would be sick. Imagine this- an island game between a toss and terran and the terran has totally turtled up while building up a BC fleet or something equally silly. You bring up a few corsairs, gay-web his turrets, and recall half his mining SCVs back to your base to be slaughtered! Lol, that would be so ridiculous because there is no way to really counter that without having like 8 golaiths or 15 marines being recalled into the center of like 10 cannons. heh. Other than that, good points.
And Steven, not a bad report, the writing was pretty clear and such. I would probably give it a 6-7 just because of the game and lack of humour/pics.
The Insane Goatee
Sonneillon | | #15 ovinder[48594] | | erbium-asy-51.rutgers.edu | Here's where ovinder says "oops".
oops.
See, I told you I'd say oops. I can predict the future. Well, sort of. I can predict the past, and if you extrapolate that ability into the future, I should be able to predict the future to, right?
Thanks for the correction on recall - assassination. I never actually tried it (obviously), but as I was writing a reply to Steven I thought "Hey, wouldn't it be powerful if ..." and I wrote that last suggested strat based on that. Probably some Blizzard play-testers figured out how abusive it would be to allow the recall of enemy troops long before I did and didn't allow it to happen. Even if I could do it though I probably wouldn't because I think its about as cheesy as a barracks-first 2-grunt rush in Warcraft II.
I actually like low res maps because unit and cost efficiency becomes more important. Much more like a chess game and less like a contest over who can think the fastest and who has the fastest computer and the fastest hands. | | #16 Ashdate[48663] | | nat193.230.mpoweredpc.net | I imagine he was playing Vanilla SC.. I heard no mention of any BW units, thus coursairs (and subsequently, Gayweb) are unavailable.
Here's how I would have dealt with the turtler:
1 POSSIBLE method:
Build about 7 or 8 reavers. Upgrade their damage and number of shells. Throw a couple o high templar behind them. Ride them up as close as you can to his base without getting shot at by the turtler. Ravers have pretty far range, so you SHOULD (if the tanks are parked behind the bunkers) be able to slowly be surely blast away his front line defenses. If not it doesn't matter, jsut let em sit there. Build lots of scouts, you want to deprive this guy of the air.
From here, you basically want to run him out of resources. Yeah, he's turtling like a bitch, but those units can't hurt you unless they come to you. Basically, to put it in simpler terms, you turtle HIM. Lay a few scouts around his base to catch anything in the air, and have a battallion of speed upgrades scouts ready to attack anything in the air. It's doubtful if he hasn't grabbed his expansion, that he has any mins, thus he'd have little ability to build BC's., or any serious air force, so this shouldn't be hard.
Essentially, you're securing the fact that if he wants to win, HE'LL have to come toward you. With scouts to blow dropships out of the air, he'll have to go through your huge battallion of reavers. If he IS forced to attack through YOUR 'turtle' Send in all your scouts who won't run through his turrets ASAP, to help deal with tanks and science vessels. Assuming he isn't a lock-down god, and you have 2 or 3 observers ready (keep one in plain sci vessel view; keep anotehr slightly behind or off to the side so he'll lock down that one thinking that IS your detection. Trust me, this works more often than not). Mind you, don't depend no this to kill EVERYTHING he sends at you, but it'll probably hurt him.
I think you can figure what comes next; you'll have all the time in the world to mass your army. Besides your mass of scouts and reavers, a large dose of carriers and or zealots behind them could help if he breaks through.
In any case, even if my advice sucks and can't help at all, I suggest you get a new friend, one who doesn't play like a whore. | | #17 [48686] | | 203-109-218-131.ihug.net | | Hmmmm, I like ur Reaver Rush, it must be a hell of a lot quicker not having to build that Cyber Core :D | | #18 King1[48687] | | 203-109-218-131.ihug.net | | Hmmmm, I like ur Reaver Rush, it must be a hell of a lot quicker not having to build that Cyber Core :D | #19  [48828] | | a1-1c041.neo.rr.com | Not too bad, but dont give away who won or lost at the beginning. :)
As for how to crack a terran turtle on vanilla.. hallucination, hallucination, hallucination. Use it on those carriers.. since bunkers can't auto target, those are 450hps targets for him to waste his time on while you deal out your real damage. Get rid of the tanks, use a reaver or two on the bunkers, gg.
6. | #20  [49306] | | csdi2-proxy.support.compaq.com | Wow Snowquall is rating! OMG As for the game. Most people forget that spell Hallucination. I remember getting dropped with 10+ zealots 2 reavers and 4 archons. But there was like 12 shuttles weren't real. I lost if your wondering.
About the game it was hard to put details in since your playing. But maybe next time you decide to BR a game, you will the observer and can get both sides of the coin.
6
Fox^1 |
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