| #1 MikeyMonty (spider-tp053.proxy.aol.com)[5029] |
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| Hmmm.. should have proofread a little bit better. Ah well, except for the occasional typo I think it came out pretty good. |
| #2 [G]-RyDeR (1Cust125.tnt1.sfo1.da.uu.net)[5031] |
|
Hi ^^;;
Nice Game ^^;;
GooD Writing ^^;;
|
| #3 Fractal_Wave (proxy4.gvcl1.bc.home.com)[5033] |
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Good report! Gotta love it when your comp facks up. I've missed about 4 games in NoHunters cause my comp starts fighting with B.net. A lot of people hate me now ;)
Regarding Upgrades:
An entire book could be writeen on the subject.
HOWEVER as Toss vs. Terran, here's what i'd recomend:
Get armor to deal with those seige tanks. I don't know haow much of a difference +1 armor makes....maybe none at all.
Get Zeal speed for breaking seiges, goon range for marines killing.
Psistorm = the bomb, no matter who you're playing.
In toss vs. terran, there are no essential forge upgrades that you should get before anything else.
Hope that rather incoherent post helped,
All the best,
Fractal_Wave |
| #4 Blank (201.hartford-13-14rs.ct.dial-access.att.net)[5039] |
|
Err, I wouldn't suggest getting armor first, the attack upgrade is ALOT more important (in BW and in vanilla). Vehicle upgrades usually come pretty late for Terrans, thus taking out siegetanks will be made alot easier with a few attack upgrades. I usually get 2 (if not all 3) attack upgrades before even bothering with an armor upgrade. Mainly because Terran's will get the infantry armor upgrade in most games(in BW). DarkTemplar will need to swipes to kill them, unless you have the attack upgrade. Plus, it'll help nullify the ability of the medic even more.
The armor upgrade is alright, but doesn't help against Siegetanks at ALL. It'll make Dragoons take 68 points of damage from them (in siege) instead of 69, not a huge difference=P The Shield upgrade is probably the worst to bother with (I usually get both armor/shield at the same time, through 2 forges) since shields take full damage and usually fall like nothing. Though, it does help your photon cannons and other buildings. Oh well, me rambling=(
Blank |
| #5 Dev (reshall-137-232.oit.edu)[5047] |
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Side note, please don't take offense Mikey, this has nothing to do with you personally.
'Macro' Dragoon armies make me sick. I can't stand it when I read how a protoss player broke a tank push simply by throwing fifteen zillion dragoons at it. Show some strategy! My GOD. I'd much rather learn how you broke the tank push by MC'ing all the tanks or something. Not that Mind Control is all that valid of a solution, but... I'm really starting to hate dragoons. I don't use them all that heavily when I random to protoss for just that reason.
Especially against Zerg; I've found an Archon/Reaver mix will do far better against the zerg at a fraction of the cost (of course, that's two units to the dragoon mob's one, and you may have to *GASP* micromanage!) |
| #6 newbie talk ^^ (cietnts.gmu.edu)[5059] |
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| just do what wins. |
| #7 -=DarkHawke=- (stj216.nf.sympatico.ca)[5069] |
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| ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS get attack upgrade first. That makes the zealots do 18 damage and it rules. They slice zerglings in 2 attacks and, overall is just better to have level 3 attacks than just level 3 armour. |
| #8 Slicer (ip21.portland11.or.pub-ip.psi.net)[5078] |
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Depends what the enemy's goin for. If I know that terran is going infantry I'll go armor... let him TRY to shoot through that. Of course, I'll probably have Storm by that time, so oh well :) The point is to go whatever your opponent's going- if I know that he's massing zlings I might want the first weapon upgrade (to kill them in two swipes) but the armor upgrade will stop a lot of damage.
Shield upgrade is good overall when you have <font color="00ff00">money</font> and especially if you're going, say... Archons :) |
| #9 MikeyMonty (spider-wm053.proxy.aol.com)[5088] |
|
| No offense taken Dev, I understand what you are saying, but I am not exactly an expert player. If I were playing a Zerg, I probably would use archons and reavers to stop mutas and mass hydras. But against a Terran dragoons and zealots are all I have success using. Still, tonight I will try it like you say. What should I use instead of goons? |
| #10 -DarkZeaiot- (spider-tq054.proxy.aol.com)[5094] |
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No offense to anyone, but why not just mix the whole lot of them for one giant kickass squad?
And the attack upgrade does best in the beginning |
| #11 bad_yellow28 (n115h041.thezone.net)[5116] |
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well vs terran drags do great overall, unless they're goin for like heavyass medarines or something.. BUT it works twice as well if you dance the drags, because then they can really kick ass.. moreso.. =) vs terran i think drags are like the basic attack unit whereas templar/reavers are the usual backup.
and my upgrade scheme always goes +attack, +defense, another forge, attack & defense, and attack and defense.. when they're 3/3 i go for shields, if that means anything.
that's my scheme for toss anyway.. =)
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| #12 shockwave (exchange1.sensable.com)[5294] |
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1) Get the weapons upgrade first. You definitely don't want to go for something super-expensive like shields; and getting armor is "half effective" since shields comprise approx 50% of zealot/dragoon health. As people have noted, the zealots get (+1)*2 attack, so they hurts lots of if you're ahead of wpns versus his armor, and they hurt much less if they're ahead of wpns versus your armor.
Also note that if your opponent has medics, weapons upgrades become very important to counteract healing.
Finally, armor does very little against big-damage-packet units such as siege tanks: You take 75 or 74 damage :-b, no big difference overall :-).
2) Dragoons work great as staple units, just as hydras, and they take little micro to use so sure you can throw 'em at an army and they'll do decent damage. Of course, you do need to throw in a templar to make them 100x as deadly, otherwise they will get mauled by something as simple as med/marines or even med/bats. I think it's safe to say that dragoons have become the core of Toss armies...as we see in the battle report, they could be used to defend and attack expansions, and hit ground and air targets. Not bad.
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| #13 patheto (zam22753.zam.kfa-juelich.de)[5386] |
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| The reason for the frequency of goons is their versatility. They are practically good for(or against) anything, without micro.And that's IT. They are costly, take ages to reload, do explosive damage, and their pathing seems to have been borrowed from Westwood's world-famous harvesters. I REALLY don't know why people make the effort to attack a tank push with goons. Medarines and tanks are at the top of my personal "goon eater"-list. The protoss have a little toy called "reaver pop", although apocalypse would be more appropriate, which does much better service against a push, for much less resources. Try it, it works. |
| #14 -stickman- (pppr04-70.eisa.net.au)[5406] |
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| Uhhh...I dunno if you were talking about post 1.04 or not but reaver pops really got slowed down badly in that patch. Also, I think mass goons is quite reasonable as they are the protoss equivalent to hydras, perhaps we only notice them more now because they weren't used so much before?...I think blizzard made a good decision in making them cheaper and faster to build because they really were pretty crap previously. ;-Þ That's enough know-it-all talk for me. |
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